Author Topic: [BUG][1.3.0] Primary axe wielders doesn't use secondary pistols (ever)  (Read 2990 times)

Cat Lady

  • Survivor
  • Purrfect.
    • View Profile
As in title, I've noticed strange issue. On the last, 4th mission of "Portals", I've had opportunity to equip my Deadnauts with Heavy axes as primary weapons, and high-grade medium pistols as secondary (with correct tactical idea, that those pistol are good enough to take most of the portal-coming weaklings, and if some manage to slip through, they will meet even more gruesome fate, thanks to the axe wielding [strike]madmen[/strike] Deadnauts).

I *do* expected that I might have to take portals down with axes, risking teleportation - as there is no way to explictly tell Deadnauts to use secondary weapon. No big deal. The thing that I did *not* expect, was that they will just plain refuse to shoot *anything* with their pistols. OK - If I give deliberate attack order, they will go and smash with axes, that expected. But, they also refrain from shooting if standing still without any orders and having enemies in range, OR while running from enemies (which under normal circumstances results in cover-shooting).

I tried it until many configurations, as it really baffled me - I could swear that at the very beginning of mission, I saw one of my guys shoot *one* bullet to the first enemy he saw (that I later, deliberately, finished with axe via direct attack order). Hoever, I'm not so sure anymore, because no matter what I tried - ambushes, running around, or leaving Deadnauts to do as they please - no one else shoot a single bullet through the whole mission.
---

Summing it up - I think it is medium-to-severe issue, as it completely invalidates using primary melee weapons for most things (at least on hardest difficulty, it could be useful only for cloaked assassins, as gun wielding ones are spoiling sneaking, anyway...).

Cheers,
/Cat Lady


flyer138

  • Survivor
    • View Profile
It is good that this issue is resolved.

But now, the axe-men become a bit useless in some situations:

once they are equipped with a cloak to approach opponents stealthy they open fire with their sidearm from range. This is undesired behavior. This also applies to scouts that are intended to discover enemies but not attack them straight ahead. Scouts should only return fire fire once they are attacked or discovered.

To cut a long story short, I kindly ask Logan to add a 'rules of engagement' control to Deadnaut. With such a control you would be able to command the following:

1. weapons are free (default behavior currently seen in Deadnaut) - deadnauts attack once enemies are in sight or range
2. return fire - deadnauts will only fire when they are attacked
3. fire on my lead - only when you issue the order to attack any specific opponent, weapons are free

Number 3 is important to lay ambushes on unsuspecting or unaware enemies. I believe it is a crucial feature that permits your Deadnauts to survive a number of far better equipped soldier-type enemies. With such a feature you could command the attack not before each of your Deadnauts is in firing position.

Currently we do not have such a feature. This forces one to resort to hit and run tactics using a launcher from afar on the first mission. I tried several different setups for the first mission but I learned that there a situations where you simply cannot win with the launcher. Regularly you face soldiers that are crowded in one of the rooms close to the bridge. How are you supposed to challenge them when each of your Deadnauts fires on his own whim and you have no chance of coordinated action?

This also applies from time to time on the later stage missions. It largely depends on the weapons the soldier-type enemies are using. Sometimes they are too strong to be attacked in the currently 'uncoordinated' manner.

Logan

  • Developer
  • Survivor
    • View Profile
Hey flyer,

We don't have any plans at the moment to add new features to Deadnaut or significantly change how the game plays, so I don't think we'll be able to add any player-controlled rules of engagement as such.

That said, the Deadnaut AI already includes this sort of logic internally -- I can tweak it so that Deadnauts with melee primaries and ranged sidearms won't open fire on enemies that are not aware of them.

Cat Lady

  • Survivor
  • Purrfect.
    • View Profile
It would make it a little complicated to attack unaware enemy with sidearm, though (against enemies that are tough in melee, or for situations, where Deadnaut is equipped with strong sidearm and crappy axe as primary - not uncommon, cause it is impossible to send Deadnaut without primary weapon, even if we consider our secondary one stronger) - they would just rush with their axe when ordered to attack, *or* we would need to do some strange dance around enemies to make them notice us (wouldn't work so well with phased/spectres, though).

At the same time, I think that Logan's idea is best compromise now - shoot with sidearms automatically if enemy is aware, and restrain from shooting if he isn't aware yet. At least, it would make stealth less useless (I actually tried playing with stealth-focused Deadnaut lately, and it was quite painful - from all combinations, only one equipped with launcher primary *and* against easy-to-spot enemies was playable at all - cheese them with sneaky rocket ;) )

Cheers,
/Cat Lady

flyer138

  • Survivor
    • View Profile
Hey flyer,

That said, the Deadnaut AI already includes this sort of logic internally -- I can tweak it so that Deadnauts with melee primaries and ranged sidearms won't open fire on enemies that are not aware of them.

Hi Logan,

it sounds like a good and promising compromise for all. However, you definitely should include scanners and projectors as primary equipment for non-firing Deadnauts at first contact. This will fix the issue with scouts revealing themselves too quickly. As long as the scouts remain undetected they should not fire unless you order them to do so or they are finally discovered.

Finally, this will improve tactical options significantly. Scouts can join the other Deadnauts in a fire fight since you now can equip them with firing weapons.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2016, 11:49:33 PM by flyer138 »

Logan

  • Developer
  • Survivor
    • View Profile
FYI, I've incorporated these changes into the current development build.

flyer138

  • Survivor
    • View Profile
Hi Logan,

thank you very much for the new V.1.3.1 update. The couple of changes really make the difference now. We greatly appreciate that you have further improved Deadnaut.

 

archive
archive
archive
archive